Nicolas Joly on Biodynamic Winemaking: Understanding Takes Many Lifetimes
When I had the chance to sit down with Nicolas Joly, one of the most passionate advocates of biodynamic winemaking, I knew it would be a conversation filled with insights. Joly’s approach to winemaking is deeply tied to his spiritual beliefs, his understanding of nature, and his commitment to authenticity.
Nicolas Joly (CTTO)
To set the scene, meeting Nicolas Joly in a refined room at D’Angleterre in Copenhagen, with its crisp white linens, heavy curtains, and crystal chandeliers, left me wondering how different it would feel to see him in his true element, back at his domaine in Vignobles de la Coulée de Serrant, Savennières. Joly is approachable and animated, gesturing passionately as he speaks, his entire body engaging in the conversation. I had a coffee and a glass of water in front of me, but truth be told, I only took a single sip during our conversation—captivated by his energy.
Biodynamics: A Slow and Patient Craft
I started by asking him how winemakers could shift to biodynamic practices in a world obsessed with speed and instant results. Joly compared biodynamics to learning an instrument: “Imagine your neighbor is a great violinist. You can’t expect to pick up a violin and play like them overnight. It takes time and patience, and the same is true for biodynamic winemaking,” he said.
Terroir: The Language of Nature
Joly's perspective on terroir goes far beyond soil and climate. For him, helping vines connect to their natural environment means avoiding standardized practices like cloning, which he called “stupid.” He emphasized, “Why should we all be the same? The beauty lies in the differences, in the vines that grow and mature in their own time.” At his vineyard, they use their own wood for grafting, reinforcing a connection that respects the natural characteristics of the vines.
“Why should we all be the same? The beauty lies in the differences, in the vines that grow and mature in their own time.”
He shared a story that captures the essence of terroir and its influence. He recalled a visit to Boston, where he spent hours harvesting oysters over miles of coastal waters. The experience left a lasting impression: each oyster, plucked from a different spot, had a unique taste, reflecting the exact location it came from. This diversity resonated deeply with Joly, mirroring the way grapes express their origins. Just as oysters carry the flavor of the waters they grow in, so do grapes reflect the soil, climate, and the entire ecosystem of their vineyard.
Vignobles de la Coulée de Serrant, Savennières.
“We receive freedom from birth to death,” he explained, “but after that, our actions and the meaning we gave to our lives shape our future existence. True understanding takes many lifetimes.”
A Philosophical Approach to Winemaking
His thoughts often wandered beyond winemaking into deeper philosophical territory. Joly spoke about life as a spiritual journey, heavily influenced by Rudolf Steiner’s anthroposophy. He shared that while he was raised Catholic and explored Buddhism, it was Steiner’s teachings that profoundly resonated with him. “We receive freedom from birth to death,” he explained, “but after that, our actions and the meaning we gave to our lives shape our future existence. True understanding takes many lifetimes.”
Joly’s thoughts on modern society were both insightful and relatable. I shared my own view: “Some people have forgotten how to taste, how to smell,” I said, adding that the fast pace of life makes it easy to lose touch with ourselves. He nodded and added that modern winemaking often feels sterile and mechanical. While it can produce good wines, Joly believes these wines lack what he calls the life force. “I don’t control fermentation; sometimes it takes four or five months, and that’s okay,” he said. “We need to learn to wait. Winemakers should guide the process, but let things happen naturally.”
"Have you seen real cows?" Joly asked. "You know, the ones with horns.”
Sommeliers as Navigators of Authenticity
We turned to the role of sommeliers and how they can convey these values to customers. Joly believes that sommeliers play an essential part in moving past marketing and brand. “Many customers are drawn to big names, but a true sommelier can help them discover the wines that resonate on a deeper level,” he said. “It’s about making that genuine connection.
Choosing the Biodynamic Path: A Salmon’s Journey
Joly’s approach to biodynamics involves more than just farming; it’s a holistic way of life. When I asked Joly why someone would choose the biodynamic path, he offered an analogy that was as vivid as it was thoughtful. “It’s like being a salmon starting its long journey to the sea,” he explained. “Along the way, you face obstacles—dams, fishing nets, even factories like the atomic one on the Loire River. Only some manage to reach the place where they can lay their eggs. It’s the same for us,” he said, underscoring the idea that choosing biodynamics means facing challenges and persevering to reach a place of true fulfillment.
As our conversation drew to a close, Joly shared a story about an Austrian winemaker who let his vines grow wild for three years without pruning or intervention. The resulting wine, despite the seeming chaos, was superior in quality. “Biodynamics isn’t just a method; it’s an approach to life,” he said. “It requires courage, patience, and an understanding that we are all connected—to the earth, the sky, and each other.”
When I asked him what advice he would offer to those wanting to explore this path, Joly’s response was simple yet profound: “Stay true to nature, listen, and let the wine guide you. This isn’t just about making wine—it’s about living life with meaning.”
“Stay true to nature, listen, and let the wine guide you. This isn’t just about making wine—it’s about living life with meaning.”
Editor's Note: Driving back home from the interview, I felt as though I had met a man who held the answers to life itself, making me question how I could possibly write an article solely about wine. What Joly practices goes beyond winemaking; it’s about connecting the dots of life. As he put it, “Whatever your social level, income brings no true satisfaction. It’s nice to have money, but it leads nowhere. A sports car—what would I do with that?” He waved his hands dismissively. “You go through these phases, but eventually, you realize it’s not the answer.”
Joly spoke about the deeper truths that go beyond material success. “The more you dig for meaning, the more you see young people arriving who are here to challenge materialism and seek a deeper wisdom,” he said. These individuals, as he described, push back against the tyranny of an economy that values wealth over authenticity, embracing a path that seeks something far more enduring and true.
Recommended Reading: During our conversation, Nicolas Joly shared some influential readings that have shaped his approach to biodynamic winemaking and life philosophy. He recommended several works by Rudolf Steiner, including:
"Theosophy: An Introduction to the Spiritual Processes in Human Life and in the Cosmos" – A look at Steiner's spiritual philosophy, exploring the nature of human life and the universe.
"The Science of Knowing" (also known as "The Theory of Knowledge Implicit in Goethe's World-Conception") – An exploration of the processes of knowing.
"How to Know Higher Worlds: A Modern Path of Initiation" – A guide to personal and spiritual growth
